I'm also looking into shortening the script as much as I can but without removing any crucial points. That being said, I would like to see what doesn't work for you as it will help me further decide on what to eliminate. Thanks again!
I really think the dream sequence you added in the beginning was MUCH needed! It rounds out the the "lucid dreaming" title, and gives the audience something to grasp on to during Jack and Alec's conversation. And I like the super of Laughner too. Tells the audience EXACTLY what they should expect within the first 10 seconds of your film.
I don't think your film needs to be shorter either. The dialogue seems snappy enough and flashbacks are "flashy." At 20 pages it might be only 15 minutes. I think that's an appropriate length for this film.
I appreciate that Alec is only naked once, when I saw Watchmen for the first time all I could think of was WTF, WHY DR. MANHATTEN, WHY? Anyways. I understand the reasoning behind him being "stripped" of reality but i think its better you only do it once.
The END is MUCH better! Alec's suicide gives a sort of closure that I believe audiences will need to feel like Alec's character has not been glorified, or given excuses for his (and when I say his, I mean Laughner's) actions. It still has the same dramatic tension, but seems much more flushed.
I assume you are getting EXTREMELY close to a locked script, because this draft seems pretty much ready to go.
What happens!? Does he pull the trigger? I need to know! And so will your audience, unless you're trying to pull an "Inception." You need to tell us. It's implied, yes, but I want to hear the gunshot even if it's over black (that's just me though).
Unfortunately (sort of), I agree with everything Jason said so feedback here is just going to be repetitive.
I love the opening scene because it immediately sucked me into the story and the ending was intense! I was scarred for Jack and a little terrified of Alec.
I don't see any major flaws/problems with any of the dialogue or story lines so I think you have a very solid/locked script!
Jennifer! Thanks so much to you as well! And...I am going to hold off on answering your question. I don't think I was trying to pull of an Inception, tho the comparison is rather cool! Haha! Sorry, but I think leaving it to the audience is far more gripping then showing it. I may just make an alternative ending, just for you! :)
I would love that! I did like that you left it up to the audience but if you cut to black and waited a beat AND THEN heard the gun shot you'd wonder if Alec had killed himself or if he had killed Jack because I was thinking it could be either although I was leaning more towards him killing Jack just because he counted to three... I DON'T KNOW! YOU NEED TO TELL ME! ;)
Hahaha! I'm just glad I got your interest. But I shan't...i'm sorry :( I will say this, though, I want the last image to be of Alec completely alone, with no one to pull him out of the black hole he's in, because ultimately, that's what people do. They walk away, either by their own means or by the fact that they were pushed away by this person in need of help. And it is in this act, that they react violently. Alec does react violently, but I won't say how or towards who. So yea, that's my vision.
I like the beginning. Do we as the audience know that it is a dream sequence? I am very confused and seeing that Alec has a dark past and a very different life than other people do. I don’t really know enough to why he hates the senator so much. I am left with questioning why her and why now. I understand he has nothing to live for, but what does she have to do with it all. I feel like you never come back to the dream sequence in the beginning. It is kind of it’s own part and from there we understand what his back story is and how dark of a person he is, but after that it doesn’t really have anything to do with the development of the story. I still don’t understand the whole Dunes part; maybe in class you can explain that to me. A big difference that you changed was that we didn’t see any of his nazi clothing. Did you take that whole part out of the story? I like your original ending better, I thought it worked for me, Jack leaves on his own terms and in this revisions Alec forces him to leave. I thought it was more of an impact when Jack left on his own and he really tried to help Alec, but just couldn’t stand to be in the same room with him.
Hey Jeff! I'm hoping the audience gets it that this is a dream, more like a nightmare, really. But if you have any suggestions as to make it more obvious then by all means, please go ahead. I also understand that I'm pretty vague as to why he really hates her so much. I do want to show that he's obsessed with her, in a way. But I'm not sure I want to really explain his reasons. Do we really know why people do the things they do? I want to kinda leave that out on the open. I think it raises more attention towards his ensanity. I don't want to go back on the dream, from the bginning, sequence for I think it serves as an establishment not necessarily of the story but about his mental state and what he thinks has been the biggest obstacles of his life. But i see your point. I'm gonna further look into that. As for the Nazi clothing, I don't think he ever wore any or had any in his drawer. It was a book, rather. And I took that off for I felt it as a distraction and its something I didn't quote know how to expand on. You bring out a very good point about the ending. Tho I think I'm leaning more towards the new one, I totally see what tour saying. I will look into that further as well. Thanks!
Hey Jesus, I don't have a whole lot of time to look through your stuff (it's a lot easier for me to dedicate time to the projects that are uploaded on time as I check right around the deadline), but I did want to tell you that I really appreciate how in-depth your journal is. I really get a sense of the mood you're trying to set with all of the reference photographs. They really create a cohesive feeling together that, I think, resonates with your story. So I just wanted to compliment you on that and encourage you to keep thinking in that direction. As for your script, I wasn't able to look at it for too long either, but I did want to raise a concern that the quote at the beginning is awesome, but you may want to think about the fact that not everyone viewing the film will know who Jared Lee Loughner is. I don't think that's crucial, but it may confuse people who don't know who he is, as I don't personally think he's prominent enough to be a household name, even though the incident was pretty recent. Just something to think about. Maybe I'll get you some more notes after I have more time to look over your script.
I found the new opening to be an interesting insight into Alec’s character. As an audience we don’t at first understand what’s going on and why he’s mistreated so badly by his family. At first I thought this scene was a projection from his distorted psyche. If it was a lucid dream, wouldn’t he control it in a more pleasant manner? The connection with lucid dreaming and the sand dune scene is much more clear and lends itself to an interesting cut on action point where he wakes up to a dream within a dream. I’ve had that feeling before and it was quite strange.
I agree that Jack walking out on his own terms, as in the original draft, created a better feeling of completeness for the ending. It’s sort of Jack standing up for him self and knowing it’s time to move on. He has much less of a character arc with out such a decisive moment.
There are many great improvements over the last draft. The additional homosexual references you added since the last draft, I feel, hurt the story, because it is overkill. Their relationship was clear in the first version. Some of the remarks build Alec’s character while others feel like unneeded exposition to what the audience already knows. Just my opinion.
The parents abandoning Alec aspect to the story is clearer in this draft, and makes sense if his delusions are getting worse, but it feels strange for this to happen without any explanation or occurence shown/mentioned to warrant such drastic action. Is Alec so delusional he has no real clue as to why his parents left? That’s how it reads for me now.
On the whole I think it’s an effectively creepy and thought provoking story.
I like where your going with this. To me this read a lot easier than the previous version and I had more grip on Alec's character and his thought process. I think this version also sets a clearer tone. After reading the first page or two I had a sense of what kind of tone/visuals you were going for and I can see it working really well because watching such images will be paranoia within itself. Did you watch Mr. Brooks or Have you seen it? I just think there would be good reference points within it like the cliffhangers and playing with audience expectations. Also there is a dream sequence that could have some value. There wasn't really anything else that I noticed that really stood out to needing adjustments, and I think everyone soo far has touched up on what I thought could use some work but all in all I like it. I'm excited to see it and I think thrillers are always exciting and I think that you have created an interesting character. I would say just don't go too overboard and stick to subtleties because I think they work well. Good work.
I for the record, would like to say that from where I'm standing, Jennifer's wrong. We don't need to know if he pulled the trigger, partially because it's a lot more fun to have long winded discussions about ambiguities like that. Perhaps Jack caved in and is going along with Alec's sick plan? Perhaps Alec's dead. We don't know, but we do know that at the end of the film, Alec holds power over Jack, but more on that later.
I think you've really gone deeper into Alec's mental state in this version, and he really comes off as a hell of a lot creepier.
You've also made managed to tie the whole lucid dreaming thing in much better than before. It's much clearer now how it was incorporated into the film than in your earlier draft, where it just seemed like a left turn out of nowhere, although it still feels weird how it's implemented at times. I found myself having to go back a few times to look at the script to figure out if we were already in a dream (Such as when he's talking to Jack about being able to fly) because it seemed like he was talking about how he was dreaming right then.
I agree with Jason that I felt it worked better when Jack left on his own volition. It felt like a person finally standing up to a bully (and psychopath) and not letting themselves be controlled by them anymore, which I really liked. In this draft, Alec is shown to exude a lot of power over Jack, and because Jack takes it, the power is real and not imaginary like when he is abandoned in the earlier draft.
It's interesting to say this, but while I think this draft is much more polished, I liked the other better, and it all comes down to the ending. It's a matter of personal preference.
And if you haven't seen Mr. Brooks yet, you totally should.
I will post my journal later today when I finish it. Thank you very much for your feedback!
ReplyDeleteI'm also looking into shortening the script as much as I can but without removing any crucial points. That being said, I would like to see what doesn't work for you as it will help me further decide on what to eliminate. Thanks again!
ReplyDeleteJesus H!
ReplyDeleteI really think the dream sequence you added in the beginning was MUCH needed! It rounds out the the "lucid dreaming" title, and gives the audience something to grasp on to during Jack and Alec's conversation. And I like the super of Laughner too. Tells the audience EXACTLY what they should expect within the first 10 seconds of your film.
I don't think your film needs to be shorter either. The dialogue seems snappy enough and flashbacks are "flashy." At 20 pages it might be only 15 minutes. I think that's an appropriate length for this film.
I appreciate that Alec is only naked once, when I saw Watchmen for the first time all I could think of was WTF, WHY DR. MANHATTEN, WHY? Anyways. I understand the reasoning behind him being "stripped" of reality but i think its better you only do it once.
The END is MUCH better! Alec's suicide gives a sort of closure that I believe audiences will need to feel like Alec's character has not been glorified, or given excuses for his (and when I say his, I mean Laughner's) actions. It still has the same dramatic tension, but seems much more flushed.
I assume you are getting EXTREMELY close to a locked script, because this draft seems pretty much ready to go.
Jason! Thanks so much for your feedback! One question I have for you, tho- did it seem like Alec commits suicide?
DeleteJesus!
ReplyDeleteWhat happens!? Does he pull the trigger? I need to know! And so will your audience, unless you're trying to pull an "Inception." You need to tell us. It's implied, yes, but I want to hear the gunshot even if it's over black (that's just me though).
Unfortunately (sort of), I agree with everything Jason said so feedback here is just going to be repetitive.
I love the opening scene because it immediately sucked me into the story and the ending was intense! I was scarred for Jack and a little terrified of Alec.
I don't see any major flaws/problems with any of the dialogue or story lines so I think you have a very solid/locked script!
Jennifer! Thanks so much to you as well! And...I am going to hold off on answering your question. I don't think I was trying to pull of an Inception, tho the comparison is rather cool! Haha! Sorry, but I think leaving it to the audience is far more gripping then showing it. I may just make an alternative ending, just for you! :)
DeleteI would love that! I did like that you left it up to the audience but if you cut to black and waited a beat AND THEN heard the gun shot you'd wonder if Alec had killed himself or if he had killed Jack because I was thinking it could be either although I was leaning more towards him killing Jack just because he counted to three... I DON'T KNOW! YOU NEED TO TELL ME! ;)
DeleteHahaha! I'm just glad I got your interest. But I shan't...i'm sorry :( I will say this, though, I want the last image to be of Alec completely alone, with no one to pull him out of the black hole he's in, because ultimately, that's what people do. They walk away, either by their own means or by the fact that they were pushed away by this person in need of help. And it is in this act, that they react violently. Alec does react violently, but I won't say how or towards who. So yea, that's my vision.
DeleteI like the beginning. Do we as the audience know that it is a dream sequence? I am very confused and seeing that Alec has a dark past and a very different life than other people do. I don’t really know enough to why he hates the senator so much. I am left with questioning why her and why now. I understand he has nothing to live for, but what does she have to do with it all. I feel like you never come back to the dream sequence in the beginning. It is kind of it’s own part and from there we understand what his back story is and how dark of a person he is, but after that it doesn’t really have anything to do with the development of the story. I still don’t understand the whole Dunes part; maybe in class you can explain that to me. A big difference that you changed was that we didn’t see any of his nazi clothing. Did you take that whole part out of the story? I like your original ending better, I thought it worked for me, Jack leaves on his own terms and in this revisions Alec forces him to leave. I thought it was more of an impact when Jack left on his own and he really tried to help Alec, but just couldn’t stand to be in the same room with him.
ReplyDeleteHey Jeff! I'm hoping the audience gets it that this is a dream, more like a nightmare, really. But if you have any suggestions as to make it more obvious then by all means, please go ahead. I also understand that I'm pretty vague as to why he really hates her so much. I do want to show that he's obsessed with her, in a way. But I'm not sure I want to really explain his reasons. Do we really know why people do the things they do? I want to kinda leave that out on the open. I think it raises more attention towards his ensanity. I don't want to go back on the dream, from the bginning, sequence for I think it serves as an establishment not necessarily of the story but about his mental state and what he thinks has been the biggest obstacles of his life. But i see your point. I'm gonna further look into that. As for the Nazi clothing, I don't think he ever wore any or had any in his drawer. It was a book, rather. And I took that off for I felt it as a distraction and its something I didn't quote know how to expand on. You bring out a very good point about the ending. Tho I think I'm leaning more towards the new one, I totally see what tour saying. I will look into that further as well. Thanks!
DeleteHey Jesus, I don't have a whole lot of time to look through your stuff (it's a lot easier for me to dedicate time to the projects that are uploaded on time as I check right around the deadline), but I did want to tell you that I really appreciate how in-depth your journal is. I really get a sense of the mood you're trying to set with all of the reference photographs. They really create a cohesive feeling together that, I think, resonates with your story. So I just wanted to compliment you on that and encourage you to keep thinking in that direction. As for your script, I wasn't able to look at it for too long either, but I did want to raise a concern that the quote at the beginning is awesome, but you may want to think about the fact that not everyone viewing the film will know who Jared Lee Loughner is. I don't think that's crucial, but it may confuse people who don't know who he is, as I don't personally think he's prominent enough to be a household name, even though the incident was pretty recent. Just something to think about. Maybe I'll get you some more notes after I have more time to look over your script.
ReplyDeleteI found the new opening to be an interesting insight into Alec’s character. As an audience we don’t at first understand what’s going on and why he’s mistreated so badly by his family. At first I thought this scene was a projection from his distorted psyche. If it was a lucid dream, wouldn’t he control it in a more pleasant manner? The connection with lucid dreaming and the sand dune scene is much more clear and lends itself to an interesting cut on action point where he wakes up to a dream within a dream. I’ve had that feeling before and it was quite strange.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Jack walking out on his own terms, as in the original draft, created a better feeling of completeness for the ending. It’s sort of Jack standing up for him self and knowing it’s time to move on. He has much less of a character arc with out such a decisive moment.
There are many great improvements over the last draft. The additional homosexual references you added since the last draft, I feel, hurt the story, because it is overkill. Their relationship was clear in the first version. Some of the remarks build Alec’s character while others feel like unneeded exposition to what the audience already knows. Just my opinion.
The parents abandoning Alec aspect to the story is clearer in this draft, and makes sense if his delusions are getting worse, but it feels strange for this to happen without any explanation or occurence shown/mentioned to warrant such drastic action. Is Alec so delusional he has no real clue as to why his parents left? That’s how it reads for me now.
On the whole I think it’s an effectively creepy and thought provoking story.
Jesus,
ReplyDeleteI like where your going with this. To me this read a lot easier than the previous version and I had more grip on Alec's character and his thought process. I think this version also sets a clearer tone. After reading the first page or two I had a sense of what kind of tone/visuals you were going for and I can see it working really well because watching such images will be paranoia within itself. Did you watch Mr. Brooks or Have you seen it? I just think there would be good reference points within it like the cliffhangers and playing with audience expectations. Also there is a dream sequence that could have some value. There wasn't really anything else that I noticed that really stood out to needing adjustments, and I think everyone soo far has touched up on what I thought could use some work but all in all I like it. I'm excited to see it and I think thrillers are always exciting and I think that you have created an interesting character. I would say just don't go too overboard and stick to subtleties because I think they work well. Good work.
Jesus
ReplyDeleteI for the record, would like to say that from where I'm standing, Jennifer's wrong. We don't need to know if he pulled the trigger, partially because it's a lot more fun to have long winded discussions about ambiguities like that. Perhaps Jack caved in and is going along with Alec's sick plan? Perhaps Alec's dead. We don't know, but we do know that at the end of the film, Alec holds power over Jack, but more on that later.
I think you've really gone deeper into Alec's mental state in this version, and he really comes off as a hell of a lot creepier.
You've also made managed to tie the whole lucid dreaming thing in much better than before. It's much clearer now how it was incorporated into the film than in your earlier draft, where it just seemed like a left turn out of nowhere, although it still feels weird how it's implemented at times. I found myself having to go back a few times to look at the script to figure out if we were already in a dream (Such as when he's talking to Jack about being able to fly) because it seemed like he was talking about how he was dreaming right then.
I agree with Jason that I felt it worked better when Jack left on his own volition. It felt like a person finally standing up to a bully (and psychopath) and not letting themselves be controlled by them anymore, which I really liked. In this draft, Alec is shown to exude a lot of power over Jack, and because Jack takes it, the power is real and not imaginary like when he is abandoned in the earlier draft.
It's interesting to say this, but while I think this draft is much more polished, I liked the other better, and it all comes down to the ending. It's a matter of personal preference.
And if you haven't seen Mr. Brooks yet, you totally should.