First thought: VERY ambitious logistically. I know you mentioned that in class, but when I read this the first thing I think is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$...
For most of the beginning, there is little to no dialogue. The dialogue that you do have seems a bit unnatural. For example, how many times will Jon say something along the lines of "What the fuck?" This communicates to me that he isn't that intelligent and really has only one stock response to these crazy situations.
The voiceover is fine, though. It is typical of opening voiceovers, but it does add a bit of intrigue to the opening, leaving us wondering exactly what your character is talking about.
I do, however, really like the Figure's first line. It was smart to not have him speak until that moment. I do wonder, though, what he sounds like. We don't know really from your description what he looks like or sounds like. I'm having a hard time visualizing the interaction and the scene in general without any description of this mysterious Figure.
I feel like there is a gap in logic because at first you say that "whatever the figure is, he is not human" but then later it is found that he is a human. Did he change forms? This doesn't make sense.
The scene in the void really took me out of it because the dialogue seems to be a lot of information for the audience. I know Jon is in an entirely new situation and truly is wondering what's going on, but the way information is presented just seems kind of forced. Jon doesn't take any time to let it set in how crazy this situation. He just goes right in to asking these questions that seem to be included so the audience understands, more so than for Jon himself to understand. I think that if you found a way to visually communicate more of your ideas, rather than relying on this explanatory dialogue, you would find something much more unique in these scenes.
Around the halfway point, I started to get lost in the plot. There's just so much going on that doesn't seem totally motivated. Why are we seeing all of these scenes, and then seeing them again, explained by Karma? I really think that, if you can get the funding for something like this, you still need to cut it down and simplify your ideas because you have so much going on that not everything seems necessary or motivated.
As for the character of Karma, it doesn't feel natural. Like I said earlier, Karma basically serves as an information source to the audience, in my opinion. This character needs to have more depth to make it more essential.
At the end of reading, I have a few more remarks I didn't make while reading it a first time, as well as thoughts after reading your journal as well:
1. If the whole story is resting on this world that Jon becomes aware of after killing himself, I think we should learn more about why he killed himself, but that's just my personal preference. I'm not fully invested in his character because I don't understand him well enough. We aren't really aware of his personality, either. Most of the information we receive about him is that he was unhappy enough to kill himself and that he has a lot of questions about this world. Where do we learn about who he is?
2. Why have you not decided Karma's gender? This is really important, seeing as making Karma a female could add in different elements (embarrassing admission: my first thought is Elizabeth Hurley as the sexy devil in "Bedazzled"). These sorts of devices wouldn't arise as easily if Karma is a male. I think you need to decide this quickly in order to fully understand your own story.
3. How on earth do you plan on getting this made? Unless you find some really rich investors, I only see this project being made if you somehow know how to animate. These kinds of worlds can be created from one of two things (that come to my mind immediately): lots and lots of money for production and special effects..... or animation. If you do find the money, I applaud you. If not, I look forward to seeing how you can communicate these ideas more creatively without the cash for such a high concept film.
I hope these comments help! Contrary to the message I send with my lengthy response here, I think you have a great start and a really interesting concept, and I look forward to seeing how you develop it further and iron out mostly the logistics of getting this made.
Now that I have that out of the way. I have been looking for the way to put what I have just read into words. Don't take that as a bad thing in any way shape or form. I love what you have so far. I really see your style in it, just like everything that you've done. It has your flair and your touch put on it. The story arch is a really interesting take on things.
I have to agree with Kristine on the first point about ambition. I know that of all people, you have a plan in place already and are starting to formulate something for how you are going to achieve all of this. It's super ambitious and I love that about it. I know that you'll have to make some concessions on things when it comes to shooting and production but as long as you know that I think you could seriously tweak some of the situations to create a feel that is similar in a possible scenario. They may not be as extreme as far as the height of the fall but you can easily keep the scenario of falling or the process of being sent into the "Hole".
I think that your characters are interesting but I think that Jon doesn't have enough of a turn to help people back the story. I know the idea is one that you can just sit down and watch without having a moral to the story. However, you can easily slip in the whole situation and force the character to possibly be fighting for stakes that are a little higher. I like that he has succumb to the world of the afterlife, however once he is there he should have some sort of realization that forces him to either come to grips with the situation or even fight the situation. Those can be easily woven into your current timeline of the film and allow the audience to back the character even more and even fall more entranced into the world you have created. While the rules to the world are ultimately your own, you still must base some of the story in a reality that the audience can relate to.
I think the dialogue is a little too simplistic. I don't know if that is the right word for the situation and I apologize if that comes across wrong. It's not that it's too simplistic, its just that the character doesn't really say anything to reveal either himself or the gravity of the situation surrounding him. I think he accepts the reality of this new world without much of a fight, or even when it is revealed to him that he has finally passed the test, there doesn't feel like enough of a graduated arc to the character that allows that to happen. That may go back to the first point about the stakes because I feel like the character needs to be fighting for something or someone and that would allow your dialogue to maybe not feel as forced or simplistic (again with the word that I know isn't right but I don't know what the correct word is).
I really look forward to sitting down with you and starting to hash everything out. I think that you've got a great idea going and I'm glad to see the start of it. I know its going to be a long process but I can't wait to see this thing happen.
Thank you guys for your comments! I know, I know... It's probably too ambitious! I went back and forth many times on whether to even consider this script, but I really want to do this! I think if pulled off properly, it would be F"ing awesome!
Also, I thought I'd address this here, this script is to be either a trilogy type of feature, or a TV series on Showtime or HBO. This film is basically an extended trailer. That being said
There are so many things to address here...
Kristine first. I agree with practically everything you said. Money will be an issue. I'm working on getting special effects students who need to make a project that will do it for free. That will really help!
About the exposition in the Hole - Yeah, I struggled with this with Zelda too. Practically explaining an entire new world in 20 minutes is nearly impossible, but I will absolutely work on making it less wordy and more visual! Any ideas? (love to hear them!)
The not-human figure was a different honorless (sorry if that was not clear).
There is a lot going on in this short amount of time, but I think that visually it wont seem so bad, reading action gets tedious and sometimes (especially with me) doesn't get communicated properly.
I would love to discuss more with you, so keep your notes and I'll work on everything I can!!!
Taurean: You mentioned my character's arc, or lack of. I know this is an issue, but I struggle with both telling the story and including it. Here are my general thoughts on this.
Two capstones come to mind, Nick Ramirez "Blue Water Tale" and Even Soroski "Alfred" has major issues (for me). They were not long enough to tell the "FULL STORY" but they still tried to. Would you rather watch a 2 hour movie compressed into 20 mins? Or, would you rather watch the first 20 mins of a 2 hour movie. The first is what I feel Nick and Evan did, and I felt incomplete after their screenings. The latter is what I am trying to do.
What I would love to do (and I will definitely need suggestions on how to), is give hints of character, backstory, and this new world, so as to make the audience CRAVE more. If (together) we can make a movie that offers those aspects, and an investor or distributor CRAVES more from this idea, then we have done our jobs!!!
PS. Yeah, I suck at writing dialogue. That's why I write the silent types :)
First of all, wow! This is a very interesting idea and like Taurean said this has you written all over it. Ambitious yes, but if anyone can do it I think you can…you have a way of making things happen when you're really passionate about them so I fully believe in your ability to make this movie possible.
With all that said, this really isn't my type of film. I wasn't absorbed in the story and I wasn't DYING to know what was coming next. I found myself confused several times wondering what the heck was going on, but I'm going to blame that on opening this morning and reading while I'm tired. However, I really didn't understand why Jon had a fully stocked weapons store under his bed. Was that part of the afterlife world or did he really have all of that stuff under his bed? That wasn't really clear to me…
What really bothered me though was that Jon seemed to just except everything that was happening to him. He would question some things but 5 seconds later the idea seemed chill to him and that just didn't work for me, it pulled me out of the story. I feel like if I had been dropped in a similar situation I would have been confused as hell and any and everything that was said to me would need hours to fully sink in. I think if you had some sort of time lapse to indicate that he didn't just except everything being thrown at him that that would strengthen you story a bit more.
I think you're spot on in researching Dead Like Me further because I think that would help you fix some of these minor story problems.
I've only seen Nick Ramirez's Blue Water Tale, but I agree in that the story didn't feel complete after I screened it or read the script. One possible idea to help you here is to change the plane scene a bit. Maybe what motivated him to kill himself is on that plane. From what I understood multiple people could contribute to the hallucination… If you could work that into the scene it would not only add layers to your screenplay but it would also add some backstory and possible make us care more for your main character.
I hope this helped and good luck! I can't wait to see what you come up with :)
Random thought, but you might want to look into The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins. If you have the time it may help it may not. Nobody dies and goes to any kind of afterlife, but I group of 24 kids gets thrown into an arena (which is like a who different universe) and they fight to the death. If you do have the time to pick it up and read it I would suggest you look at how different the arena is compared to each of the districts and maybe look at how Collins shows Katniss's (the main character') character. Again I'm not totally sure it'll help you out but I figured I'd mention it :)
I know we are supposed to keep the cross-talk to a minimum but I just wanted to respond to Jason. I think what you said about hinting is essentially what I was trying to say. I think that you need to have more nuggets of information about the characters back-story and the reason for the adventure. That is what will keep the audience hooked and wanting more. Right now, there aren't enough of the nuggets and ideas that are formed in order to keep the audience wanting to know what happens next in the fully fleshed out version.
I agree that it is hard to contain a features worth of ideas into a shorter period of time, however, when you said you wanted to keep the audience thinking this is the first 20 minutes is different. I think you can make a condensed version, not necessarily the entire story but allow the character to grow over the time we see them on screen. And to keep them growing enough that it will at least leave the audience fulfilled, and thus craving more. That almost sounded like a weird drug reference there...
Really off the wall beginning. It is outrageous and nonstop. I know its always good to start with a bang, but what you have is an atom bomb!
We need more from the character in the beginning. We don't know enough about his "bad decisions" or his "one mistake". Right now, there's almost no reason for your character to have a name. He could be just, Man. Let's see his decisions weigh in on his mind, let's see his struggle in the real world. Why does he ultimately make the decision to kill himself?
Your character makes decision that really confuse me. I know you like action movies and you implement elements from other successful films; but there is so much when I read it, it comes off as comical. He has a bed with kevlar underneath! WHO DOES THAT? Underneath the bed the box spring has been hollowed for the metal casing; if he can afford to have 'Kevlar'd' why does he have to hollow out anything? Why does he has SO MANY GUNS conveniently placed underneath his bed? I've heard of using protection in the bedroom, but this is ridiculous! (Sorry, bad joke. Couldn't resist) And after he arms himself ready for WW 3, he decides to say 'Fuck it' and jumps 50 stories? What if he had missed the pool? What if there wasn't a pool?
I like the idea of the door opening to different worlds, but does he have to "Spray the door knob"? What if the door wasn't locked? He might need that ammunition! Speaking of ammunition, why doesn't he reload?
In essence what I am trying to say is that I do not think this is the best way to introduce your setup. I like the element of telekinesis that Karma uses on Jon. But I'm not sure how I feel about the dead or undead or whatever using guns. Maybe there a way to keep it in the supernatural.
I know you said you have problems writing dialogue, but I think your instincts are in the right place. I can help you on that if you would like.
I think the transition from Man to Grim Reaper or "Honorless" is an AWESOME concept. But you say nothing about it, I would like to see more. You have GREAT ideas, remember that. The concepts of the Hole, the Hellion and the Heavenly are interesting and could set up a great story. Take advantage of those elements. Lose the Hallucination sequence. It's a unique concept, but you don't have time for it. I want to see this dude get his Reapin' on! I know you can do this, it's a first draft so I am eager to see your next work!
I remember you talking to me about this way back when, and it shows that you've been putting a lot of work into it.
The action sequences are really awesome. It's stylized and over the top, but that really works for me because of the world building and whatnot that you've put into this. The Figures have a really cool design to them in my mind, as does the Hole.
Obviously, logistically this is probably going to be a nightmare. Money is going to be a serious issue, as is the special effects I visualize when I read this script. The sooner you get a design pegged down for what the Figures and the Hole look like, the sooner you can get a visual effects team working on these things.
Personally, I don't think the voice over at the very beginning works on its own if it's immediately followed by the attack by the Figures. I think that if we saw proof of his villainy and whatnot (pictures of his handiwork or something along those lines) it would work better. It would also explain why he has the Kevlar vest and all the other equipment that he pulls out.
Also, this is just out of clarification, did you mean that those who committed suicide were too masochistic for Hell? You wrote sadistic, but considering the context (the Hole being their punishment for killing themselves) masochism makes more sense to me.
Aside from that slight confusion, I am really excited to see what you do with this.
OK. Where to begin. Haha! First of all, I want to say that this is by far an EXTREMELY exciting story. You got the hero's journey! In a way. Right now, however, that journey is looking to be VERY expensive and one that will require a lot of time. But we've talked about that before. If that guy from Argentina did it for $300, than anything is possible.
Story: again, very exciting in terms of adrenaline. There's a lot of adrenaline. I feel like it's gonna be one of those movies that doesn't let you breathe. I like that. It's clearly visible here that you like action, suspense, EXPLOSIONS. That being said, a lot of these stories tend to have a lot stuff happening at once and sometimes without meaning. It's easy to get lost. To be honest, I feel stupid for not getting it right away. I mean, I get what the character of Jon or the "Honorless" has to do. I get that he has to give the "Candidates" a test. I just don't really know why certain things happen the way they do. I think someone mentioned the hallucination and how you should skip it? This to me is by far the most ambitious scene. I would like to further converse with you on how you plan to execute it. I think it's an awesome scene but it also adds to the confusion. The hallucination, I mean. The explaining of it. I think i'm most confused with the concept, as exciting as it may be! Please don't hate me.
Dialogue: were you at all inspired by any manga or anime stories?? Because i've noticed that some people find your dialogue a bit unrealistic. For me it reminds me of how they talk in anime shows. So off the wall, goofy and not how people would talk in certain situations. So it really wasn't a problem for me. There were some times, however, where the figure and Jon's conversation got a little too funky, like the referring to each other as teach or chess man. That may just be me though. But I think you may have put that for comedic purposes.
Characters: yes, you didn't really specify on whether karma was male or female. I figured a very feminine man, for some reason. Either way, you have to tell us.
Jon: I'm having trouble liking this dude. That's not a bad thing though. For me. It is if you DO want us to like him.
Overall, great start! If done right, Jason, this movie could take you places. And don't worry, we're all here to help :)
You learned well from 300. I was hooked with 30 seconds, or I would say two pages. When he jumps into the pool on the rooftop, I would look at the movie Get Him To The Greek pool scene where Russell Bran jumps into the pool. This will help on camera direction and placement.
My overall thoughts for this film are it is a very ambitious film that if you had the time and money could work. Like everyone else, logistics are the main problem here. Money, settings, props, they are very hard to get for a student filmmaker and it seems like you are going to need a lot of CGI, green and blue screens and a lot of post production work.
If you are stuck on this script, then I would say changing some of the locations to make it reasonable to make, maybe instead of an airplane, a train per say, maybe going off track, and instead of New York city, do a smaller town. It is also a possibility to just make this script into a feature length script and use that as your capstone. You have a lot of great parts that can be expanded here, add more action sequences, add scenes about Jon past, etc. Great script though.
I like your story. I know the logistics of a lot of it are, unfortunately, a little out of your control, but I think that your foundation for the story is there. I think that this is an excellent first go, and as you continue through the rewrite process you can cut some of the "unshootable" scenes. You are well aware of this.
As far as the story goes, I think that it is unique and defiantly has your personality and style throughout, and that is the one thing that I respect about you as a film maker, you make the movie that you want to. I feel like all of your characters just need to be developed a little bit more and I would highly suggest researching ways to accomplish that. I think you will have a unique opportunity to make an iconic character like the grim reaper your own. I would suggest watching The Seventh Seal first.
Overall, I like your story and I like your ambition. You are not "smokin crack" and the areas that everyone has mentioned, you recognize, but don't let those hiccups deter you in making your vision possible...
I really like your idea man.. But honestly, i think you just went a little too crazy with it. This script is really all over the place and I had a lot of trouble following along.
I think the problem is that you need to pick a single genre. You have all this awesome action/badass hitman stuff, and then all this trippy, psychedelic, semi religious stuff. I don't think you can combine them, it's just too much in such a short amount of time. But if you focused your ideas with one of those genres, then i think you have the potential to make something really awesome.
It is also kind of jarring when you have all these awesome action sequences, which, not gonna lie, were pretty badass... but then everything is just halted when you have to use The Figure to explain everything we just saw... if it needs that much explanation, you need to simplify... Or take it out.
So really man, you have a great movie in there somewhere... you just need to simplify.
Wow, Jason! What an undertaking this will be. It is certainly ambitious, but I feel like you can handle it.
With that being said, my biggest concern for this script is the feasibility aspect. I know that you're worried about money and rightfully so. How do you plan to approach some of the stunts, such as jumping out of a window? I wonder if you can't find a way to get your point across in a simpler, more feasible scene to shoot.
Dialogue-wise, I felt that Jon's overuse of "What the fuck!?" phrases was just that: overused. It portrays him as somewhat simplistic, which, if you're going for that, then it works. But he seems to be more intelligent than that, so maybe some variety would spice up his character.
The beginning of your film almost reminds me of Sin City with all the jumping off skyscrapers and out of buildings and lots of gunfire, until I started reading into it and seeing some of your religious symbols. I find this really intriguing. I'd like to see where you could expand on this (should you decide to).
Anyway, I'm really interested to see how you're able to get all of this into a better cohesive project!
Jason, man, one thing I like about you is that you will what you want to do despite how insanely difficult it might seem. I think that you wouldn't have written it if you didn't already have some sort of plan of how your going to accomplish a lot of this. I think ultimately your going to have to start working on getting as much as you can as far as locations, sets, etc. I think you should go for it, if you think its possible.
That said, I agree with Trent about the comical side. It was borderline cheesy and I'm afraid that if it doesn't go right, You're BA idea of a movie you have in your head will turn into a cheesy action comedy poking fun at the matrix/fight club. Also I like what Trent said about the Character. It's just not working. He seems too naive and idiotic. I think he needs to come off as a very intelligent intellectual who feels he knows everything until he is "awakened" into this new world. Once he is awakened I think we need to see the mechanics go to work until he reaches the Aha! moment. I also want to know what separates him from the rest. What makes him soo special that we need to see him go through this story. I think it needs another level. To me this story feels too much like Wanted and not enough like The Matrix, Fight Club, and The Sixth Sense. I want to feel connected to the character and I think that right now, I just see it as a one and done kind of movie. It has potential, and I think your ambition is there. But you need to really make a move on getting this drawn out and determining whether it's going to work the way you want it too with whatever assets you end up having.
I think the dialogue could be strengthened and I would like to see a bit more of playfulness with the words and threats. I think the threats should sound not be violent threats between karma and jon but more of an intellectual battle. If Karma is a girl, there might be some twisted attraction between the two that could serve why he ends up there. I think that there are a lot of strengths and your transitions are working, but there needs to be more at stake, and I think you need add more depth to the story. To me the world needs to be more complicated and have more hierarchy and threats to it and the character should overcome that. It could be that this is the intro to the character accomplishing that.
Okay... Well before anyone else says it, let me go ahead and be the first. Ambitious. Your style has always been very aggressive... and as said multiple times before me, that is your film making vision. Nothing negative about that. Just get on this Pre-production ASAP, and as Jeff noted... maybe simplify a few of the logistics. I love the idea, and think that you truly have something here that can be made into an action packed thriller. The combination memories and fantasy world through me for a loop, but I liked how you tied the two together in the end as hallucinations. If possible, I would like to see more of a mysterious swag out of Jon. For example, I would cut the "What the fuck" lines in the beginning, and just have his action explain to the audience that he too is unsure of what is happening, rather than having to explain this through words. I was a little confused in the beginning, and I believe that you need to incorporate more character background so that we can see his "mistake" grow into something that builds his character through the different acts. I think that you have a great start and I know that your vision already has ideas bouncing around in your head to make this special. Keep working my dude... I look forward to seeing the next draft. Oh... And one quick note:
This is a very visually driven film, with many fantastical stunts, locations, and props. All of the locations seem very hard to come by, particularly an airplane. The gauntlet with the retractable riot shield along with many of the hi-tech weapons mentioned in the script are of course pretty awesome to see in actions films, yet are definitely a logistics challenge for student films. Do you plan in making the gauntlet shield? I love all the description you provided in the fighting sequences, I can really picture the battles, although it is a very challenging thing to make look realistic on film obviously. Although, I know it’s not our first rodeo, so I can’t wait to see how they turn out. Who knew karma would be such a smart ass? Just a tip, I hear 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 color space makes a big difference for keying green screens. Am very intrigued with the overall concept of the film and I don’t want to bore you with more logistics talk. The imaginative idea of your film doesn’t need to rely on such fantastical locations for it to turn out well, although the often help visually if they can truly be attainable. I though you did an excellent job of dialogue for your characters, I even like the repetitive line others were not so thrilled on. I think his monotonic response is truly fitting for his character. Are all the Honorless going to be sarcastic smart asses like Karma and Jon? It could be an interesting approach if you expand it into a series. This is definitely the most ambitious action film I have ever seen developed by a student; which is pretty awesome. I would start looking for good CGI artist now or you could end up having to make compromises in that realm that you are less than thrilled with further down the road. I love the vision. What was Jon’s profession before he died?
Why am I not surprised that you would write something like this :p overall great script! I was hooked at the very first page which is a good thing. I was able to keep up with you story up to the part with Jon and the blad guy watching Seinfeld but after that, it was really just all over the place. don't get me wrong, the concept, hands down i love it! You didn't go all religious which is good cause that subject wouldn't really go well with the story. The choice of names, the characters, the rules of that place. I LOVE IT! you've taken an "existing" world and made it into your own. Like I said at the beginning my only problem with this is too all over the place at the end and men, I hate to admit it but you need some serious doe to pull it off (but hey! I might be wrong too) but you might want to have plan B locations for more feasible shooting.
And for Jon using the line "What the fuck?!" three time, I mean c'mon Jason, I'm pretty sure you can easily come up with three more creative ways to cuss :)
Thoughts as I read:
ReplyDeleteFirst thought: VERY ambitious logistically. I know you mentioned that in class, but when I read this the first thing I think is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$...
For most of the beginning, there is little to no dialogue. The dialogue that you do have seems a bit unnatural. For example, how many times will Jon say something along the lines of "What the fuck?" This communicates to me that he isn't that intelligent and really has only one stock response to these crazy situations.
The voiceover is fine, though. It is typical of opening voiceovers, but it does add a bit of intrigue to the opening, leaving us wondering exactly what your character is talking about.
I do, however, really like the Figure's first line. It was smart to not have him speak until that moment. I do wonder, though, what he sounds like. We don't know really from your description what he looks like or sounds like. I'm having a hard time visualizing the interaction and the scene in general without any description of this mysterious Figure.
I feel like there is a gap in logic because at first you say that "whatever the figure is, he is not human" but then later it is found that he is a human. Did he change forms? This doesn't make sense.
The scene in the void really took me out of it because the dialogue seems to be a lot of information for the audience. I know Jon is in an entirely new situation and truly is wondering what's going on, but the way information is presented just seems kind of forced. Jon doesn't take any time to let it set in how crazy this situation. He just goes right in to asking these questions that seem to be included so the audience understands, more so than for Jon himself to understand. I think that if you found a way to visually communicate more of your ideas, rather than relying on this explanatory dialogue, you would find something much more unique in these scenes.
Around the halfway point, I started to get lost in the plot. There's just so much going on that doesn't seem totally motivated. Why are we seeing all of these scenes, and then seeing them again, explained by Karma? I really think that, if you can get the funding for something like this, you still need to cut it down and simplify your ideas because you have so much going on that not everything seems necessary or motivated.
As for the character of Karma, it doesn't feel natural. Like I said earlier, Karma basically serves as an information source to the audience, in my opinion. This character needs to have more depth to make it more essential.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of reading, I have a few more remarks I didn't make while reading it a first time, as well as thoughts after reading your journal as well:
1. If the whole story is resting on this world that Jon becomes aware of after killing himself, I think we should learn more about why he killed himself, but that's just my personal preference. I'm not fully invested in his character because I don't understand him well enough. We aren't really aware of his personality, either. Most of the information we receive about him is that he was unhappy enough to kill himself and that he has a lot of questions about this world. Where do we learn about who he is?
2. Why have you not decided Karma's gender? This is really important, seeing as making Karma a female could add in different elements (embarrassing admission: my first thought is Elizabeth Hurley as the sexy devil in "Bedazzled"). These sorts of devices wouldn't arise as easily if Karma is a male. I think you need to decide this quickly in order to fully understand your own story.
3. How on earth do you plan on getting this made? Unless you find some really rich investors, I only see this project being made if you somehow know how to animate. These kinds of worlds can be created from one of two things (that come to my mind immediately): lots and lots of money for production and special effects..... or animation. If you do find the money, I applaud you. If not, I look forward to seeing how you can communicate these ideas more creatively without the cash for such a high concept film.
I hope these comments help! Contrary to the message I send with my lengthy response here, I think you have a great start and a really interesting concept, and I look forward to seeing how you develop it further and iron out mostly the logistics of getting this made.
Holy...
ReplyDeleteMan...
Ok...
Now that I have that out of the way. I have been looking for the way to put what I have just read into words. Don't take that as a bad thing in any way shape or form. I love what you have so far. I really see your style in it, just like everything that you've done. It has your flair and your touch put on it. The story arch is a really interesting take on things.
I have to agree with Kristine on the first point about ambition. I know that of all people, you have a plan in place already and are starting to formulate something for how you are going to achieve all of this. It's super ambitious and I love that about it. I know that you'll have to make some concessions on things when it comes to shooting and production but as long as you know that I think you could seriously tweak some of the situations to create a feel that is similar in a possible scenario. They may not be as extreme as far as the height of the fall but you can easily keep the scenario of falling or the process of being sent into the "Hole".
I think that your characters are interesting but I think that Jon doesn't have enough of a turn to help people back the story. I know the idea is one that you can just sit down and watch without having a moral to the story. However, you can easily slip in the whole situation and force the character to possibly be fighting for stakes that are a little higher. I like that he has succumb to the world of the afterlife, however once he is there he should have some sort of realization that forces him to either come to grips with the situation or even fight the situation. Those can be easily woven into your current timeline of the film and allow the audience to back the character even more and even fall more entranced into the world you have created. While the rules to the world are ultimately your own, you still must base some of the story in a reality that the audience can relate to.
I think the dialogue is a little too simplistic. I don't know if that is the right word for the situation and I apologize if that comes across wrong. It's not that it's too simplistic, its just that the character doesn't really say anything to reveal either himself or the gravity of the situation surrounding him. I think he accepts the reality of this new world without much of a fight, or even when it is revealed to him that he has finally passed the test, there doesn't feel like enough of a graduated arc to the character that allows that to happen. That may go back to the first point about the stakes because I feel like the character needs to be fighting for something or someone and that would allow your dialogue to maybe not feel as forced or simplistic (again with the word that I know isn't right but I don't know what the correct word is).
I really look forward to sitting down with you and starting to hash everything out. I think that you've got a great idea going and I'm glad to see the start of it. I know its going to be a long process but I can't wait to see this thing happen.
I would also like to add that please can we cast Mary-Louise Parker or Olivia Wilde as Karma...
ReplyDeleteThank you guys for your comments! I know, I know... It's probably too ambitious! I went back and forth many times on whether to even consider this script, but I really want to do this! I think if pulled off properly, it would be F"ing awesome!
ReplyDeleteAlso, I thought I'd address this here, this script is to be either a trilogy type of feature, or a TV series on Showtime or HBO. This film is basically an extended trailer. That being said
There are so many things to address here...
Kristine first. I agree with practically everything you said. Money will be an issue. I'm working on getting special effects students who need to make a project that will do it for free. That will really help!
About the exposition in the Hole - Yeah, I struggled with this with Zelda too. Practically explaining an entire new world in 20 minutes is nearly impossible, but I will absolutely work on making it less wordy and more visual! Any ideas? (love to hear them!)
The not-human figure was a different honorless (sorry if that was not clear).
There is a lot going on in this short amount of time, but I think that visually it wont seem so bad, reading action gets tedious and sometimes (especially with me) doesn't get communicated properly.
I would love to discuss more with you, so keep your notes and I'll work on everything I can!!!
Taurean: You mentioned my character's arc, or lack of. I know this is an issue, but I struggle with both telling the story and including it. Here are my general thoughts on this.
ReplyDeleteTwo capstones come to mind, Nick Ramirez "Blue Water Tale" and Even Soroski "Alfred" has major issues (for me). They were not long enough to tell the "FULL STORY" but they still tried to. Would you rather watch a 2 hour movie compressed into 20 mins? Or, would you rather watch the first 20 mins of a 2 hour movie. The first is what I feel Nick and Evan did, and I felt incomplete after their screenings. The latter is what I am trying to do.
What I would love to do (and I will definitely need suggestions on how to), is give hints of character, backstory, and this new world, so as to make the audience CRAVE more. If (together) we can make a movie that offers those aspects, and an investor or distributor CRAVES more from this idea, then we have done our jobs!!!
PS. Yeah, I suck at writing dialogue. That's why I write the silent types :)
First of all, wow! This is a very interesting idea and like Taurean said this has you written all over it. Ambitious yes, but if anyone can do it I think you can…you have a way of making things happen when you're really passionate about them so I fully believe in your ability to make this movie possible.
ReplyDeleteWith all that said, this really isn't my type of film. I wasn't absorbed in the story and I wasn't DYING to know what was coming next. I found myself confused several times wondering what the heck was going on, but I'm going to blame that on opening this morning and reading while I'm tired. However, I really didn't understand why Jon had a fully stocked weapons store under his bed. Was that part of the afterlife world or did he really have all of that stuff under his bed? That wasn't really clear to me…
What really bothered me though was that Jon seemed to just except everything that was happening to him. He would question some things but 5 seconds later the idea seemed chill to him and that just didn't work for me, it pulled me out of the story. I feel like if I had been dropped in a similar situation I would have been confused as hell and any and everything that was said to me would need hours to fully sink in. I think if you had some sort of time lapse to indicate that he didn't just except everything being thrown at him that that would strengthen you story a bit more.
I think you're spot on in researching Dead Like Me further because I think that would help you fix some of these minor story problems.
I've only seen Nick Ramirez's Blue Water Tale, but I agree in that the story didn't feel complete after I screened it or read the script. One possible idea to help you here is to change the plane scene a bit. Maybe what motivated him to kill himself is on that plane. From what I understood multiple people could contribute to the hallucination… If you could work that into the scene it would not only add layers to your screenplay but it would also add some backstory and possible make us care more for your main character.
I hope this helped and good luck! I can't wait to see what you come up with :)
Random thought, but you might want to look into The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins. If you have the time it may help it may not. Nobody dies and goes to any kind of afterlife, but I group of 24 kids gets thrown into an arena (which is like a who different universe) and they fight to the death. If you do have the time to pick it up and read it I would suggest you look at how different the arena is compared to each of the districts and maybe look at how Collins shows Katniss's (the main character') character. Again I'm not totally sure it'll help you out but I figured I'd mention it :)
ReplyDeleteI know we are supposed to keep the cross-talk to a minimum but I just wanted to respond to Jason. I think what you said about hinting is essentially what I was trying to say. I think that you need to have more nuggets of information about the characters back-story and the reason for the adventure. That is what will keep the audience hooked and wanting more. Right now, there aren't enough of the nuggets and ideas that are formed in order to keep the audience wanting to know what happens next in the fully fleshed out version.
ReplyDeleteI agree that it is hard to contain a features worth of ideas into a shorter period of time, however, when you said you wanted to keep the audience thinking this is the first 20 minutes is different. I think you can make a condensed version, not necessarily the entire story but allow the character to grow over the time we see them on screen. And to keep them growing enough that it will at least leave the audience fulfilled, and thus craving more. That almost sounded like a weird drug reference there...
Thank you guys! I will pray on some things that could make this more flushed. Keep feeding me though... I'm hungry!!
ReplyDeleteGood God man what have you done?!
ReplyDeleteReally off the wall beginning. It is outrageous and nonstop. I know its always good to start with a bang, but what you have is an atom bomb!
We need more from the character in the beginning. We don't know enough about his "bad decisions" or his "one mistake". Right now, there's almost no reason for your character to have a name. He could be just, Man. Let's see his decisions weigh in on his mind, let's see his struggle in the real world. Why does he ultimately make the decision to kill himself?
Your character makes decision that really confuse me. I know you like action movies and you implement elements from other successful films; but there is so much when I read it, it comes off as comical. He has a bed with kevlar underneath! WHO DOES THAT? Underneath the bed the box spring has been hollowed for the metal casing; if he can afford to have 'Kevlar'd' why does he have to hollow out anything? Why does he has SO MANY GUNS conveniently placed underneath his bed? I've heard of using protection in the bedroom, but this is ridiculous! (Sorry, bad joke. Couldn't resist) And after he arms himself ready for WW 3, he decides to say 'Fuck it' and jumps 50 stories? What if he had missed the pool? What if there wasn't a pool?
I like the idea of the door opening to different worlds, but does he have to "Spray the door knob"? What if the door wasn't locked? He might need that ammunition! Speaking of ammunition, why doesn't he reload?
In essence what I am trying to say is that I do not think this is the best way to introduce your setup. I like the element of telekinesis that Karma uses on Jon. But I'm not sure how I feel about the dead or undead or whatever using guns. Maybe there a way to keep it in the supernatural.
I know you said you have problems writing dialogue, but I think your instincts are in the right place. I can help you on that if you would like.
I think the transition from Man to Grim Reaper or "Honorless" is an AWESOME concept. But you say nothing about it, I would like to see more. You have GREAT ideas, remember that. The concepts of the Hole, the Hellion and the Heavenly are interesting and could set up a great story. Take advantage of those elements. Lose the Hallucination sequence. It's a unique concept, but you don't have time for it. I want to see this dude get his Reapin' on! I know you can do this, it's a first draft so I am eager to see your next work!
Wow...
ReplyDeleteI remember you talking to me about this way back when, and it shows that you've been putting a lot of work into it.
The action sequences are really awesome. It's stylized and over the top, but that really works for me because of the world building and whatnot that you've put into this. The Figures have a really cool design to them in my mind, as does the Hole.
Obviously, logistically this is probably going to be a nightmare. Money is going to be a serious issue, as is the special effects I visualize when I read this script. The sooner you get a design pegged down for what the Figures and the Hole look like, the sooner you can get a visual effects team working on these things.
Personally, I don't think the voice over at the very beginning works on its own if it's immediately followed by the attack by the Figures. I think that if we saw proof of his villainy and whatnot (pictures of his handiwork or something along those lines) it would work better. It would also explain why he has the Kevlar vest and all the other equipment that he pulls out.
Also, this is just out of clarification, did you mean that those who committed suicide were too masochistic for Hell? You wrote sadistic, but considering the context (the Hole being their punishment for killing themselves) masochism makes more sense to me.
Aside from that slight confusion, I am really excited to see what you do with this.
OK. Where to begin. Haha! First of all, I want to say that this is by far an EXTREMELY exciting story. You got the hero's journey! In a way. Right now, however, that journey is looking to be VERY expensive and one that will require a lot of time. But we've talked about that before. If that guy from Argentina did it for $300, than anything is possible.
ReplyDeleteStory: again, very exciting in terms of adrenaline. There's a lot of adrenaline. I feel like it's gonna be one of those movies that doesn't let you breathe. I like that. It's clearly visible here that you like action, suspense, EXPLOSIONS. That being said, a lot of these stories tend to have a lot stuff happening at once and sometimes without meaning. It's easy to get lost. To be honest, I feel stupid for not getting it right away. I mean, I get what the character of Jon or the "Honorless" has to do. I get that he has to give the "Candidates" a test. I just don't really know why certain things happen the way they do. I think someone mentioned the hallucination and how you should skip it? This to me is by far the most ambitious scene. I would like to further converse with you on how you plan to execute it. I think it's an awesome scene but it also adds to the confusion. The hallucination, I mean. The explaining of it. I think i'm most confused with the concept, as exciting as it may be! Please don't hate me.
Dialogue: were you at all inspired by any manga or anime stories?? Because i've noticed that some people find your dialogue a bit unrealistic. For me it reminds me of how they talk in anime shows. So off the wall, goofy and not how people would talk in certain situations. So it really wasn't a problem for me. There were some times, however, where the figure and Jon's conversation got a little too funky, like the referring to each other as teach or chess man. That may just be me though. But I think you may have put that for comedic purposes.
Characters: yes, you didn't really specify on whether karma was male or female. I figured a very feminine man, for some reason. Either way, you have to tell us.
Jon: I'm having trouble liking this dude. That's not a bad thing though. For me. It is if you DO want us to like him.
Overall, great start! If done right, Jason, this movie could take you places. And don't worry, we're all here to help :)
You learned well from 300. I was hooked with 30 seconds, or I would say two pages. When he jumps into the pool on the rooftop, I would look at the movie Get Him To The Greek pool scene where Russell Bran jumps into the pool. This will help on camera direction and placement.
ReplyDeleteMy overall thoughts for this film are it is a very ambitious film that if you had the time and money could work. Like everyone else, logistics are the main problem here. Money, settings, props, they are very hard to get for a student filmmaker and it seems like you are going to need a lot of CGI, green and blue screens and a lot of post production work.
If you are stuck on this script, then I would say changing some of the locations to make it reasonable to make, maybe instead of an airplane, a train per say, maybe going off track, and instead of New York city, do a smaller town.
It is also a possibility to just make this script into a feature length script and use that as your capstone. You have a lot of great parts that can be expanded here, add more action sequences, add scenes about Jon past, etc. Great script though.
I like your story. I know the logistics of a lot of it are, unfortunately, a little out of your control, but I think that your foundation for the story is there. I think that this is an excellent first go, and as you continue through the rewrite process you can cut some of the "unshootable" scenes. You are well aware of this.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the story goes, I think that it is unique and defiantly has your personality and style throughout, and that is the one thing that I respect about you as a film maker, you make the movie that you want to. I feel like all of your characters just need to be developed a little bit more and I would highly suggest researching ways to accomplish that. I think you will have a unique opportunity to make an iconic character like the grim reaper your own. I would suggest watching The Seventh Seal first.
Overall, I like your story and I like your ambition. You are not "smokin crack" and the areas that everyone has mentioned, you recognize, but don't let those hiccups deter you in making your vision possible...
HEY JASON!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI really like your idea man.. But honestly, i think you just went a little too crazy with it. This script is really all over the place and I had a lot of trouble following along.
I think the problem is that you need to pick a single genre. You have all this awesome action/badass hitman stuff, and then all this trippy, psychedelic, semi religious stuff. I don't think you can combine them, it's just too much in such a short amount of time. But if you focused your ideas with one of those genres, then i think you have the potential to make something really awesome.
It is also kind of jarring when you have all these awesome action sequences, which, not gonna lie, were pretty badass... but then everything is just halted when you have to use The Figure to explain everything we just saw... if it needs that much explanation, you need to simplify... Or take it out.
So really man, you have a great movie in there somewhere... you just need to simplify.
Alright Rocky BalBroa....I love you.
Nick
Wow, Jason! What an undertaking this will be. It is certainly ambitious, but I feel like you can handle it.
ReplyDeleteWith that being said, my biggest concern for this script is the feasibility aspect. I know that you're worried about money and rightfully so. How do you plan to approach some of the stunts, such as jumping out of a window? I wonder if you can't find a way to get your point across in a simpler, more feasible scene to shoot.
Dialogue-wise, I felt that Jon's overuse of "What the fuck!?" phrases was just that: overused. It portrays him as somewhat simplistic, which, if you're going for that, then it works. But he seems to be more intelligent than that, so maybe some variety would spice up his character.
The beginning of your film almost reminds me of Sin City with all the jumping off skyscrapers and out of buildings and lots of gunfire, until I started reading into it and seeing some of your religious symbols. I find this really intriguing. I'd like to see where you could expand on this (should you decide to).
Anyway, I'm really interested to see how you're able to get all of this into a better cohesive project!
Devon
Jason, man, one thing I like about you is that you will what you want to do despite how insanely difficult it might seem. I think that you wouldn't have written it if you didn't already have some sort of plan of how your going to accomplish a lot of this. I think ultimately your going to have to start working on getting as much as you can as far as locations, sets, etc. I think you should go for it, if you think its possible.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I agree with Trent about the comical side. It was borderline cheesy and I'm afraid that if it doesn't go right, You're BA idea of a movie you have in your head will turn into a cheesy action comedy poking fun at the matrix/fight club. Also I like what Trent said about the Character. It's just not working. He seems too naive and idiotic. I think he needs to come off as a very intelligent intellectual who feels he knows everything until he is "awakened" into this new world. Once he is awakened I think we need to see the mechanics go to work until he reaches the Aha! moment. I also want to know what separates him from the rest. What makes him soo special that we need to see him go through this story. I think it needs another level. To me this story feels too much like Wanted and not enough like The Matrix, Fight Club, and The Sixth Sense. I want to feel connected to the character and I think that right now, I just see it as a one and done kind of movie. It has potential, and I think your ambition is there. But you need to really make a move on getting this drawn out and determining whether it's going to work the way you want it too with whatever assets you end up having.
I think the dialogue could be strengthened and I would like to see a bit more of playfulness with the words and threats. I think the threats should sound not be violent threats between karma and jon but more of an intellectual battle. If Karma is a girl, there might be some twisted attraction between the two that could serve why he ends up there. I think that there are a lot of strengths and your transitions are working, but there needs to be more at stake, and I think you need add more depth to the story. To me the world needs to be more complicated and have more hierarchy and threats to it and the character should overcome that. It could be that this is the intro to the character accomplishing that.
Okay... Well before anyone else says it, let me go ahead and be the first. Ambitious.
ReplyDeleteYour style has always been very aggressive... and as said multiple times before me, that is your film making vision. Nothing negative about that. Just get on this Pre-production ASAP, and as Jeff noted... maybe simplify a few of the logistics.
I love the idea, and think that you truly have something here that can be made into an action packed thriller. The combination memories and fantasy world through me for a loop, but I liked how you tied the two together in the end as hallucinations.
If possible, I would like to see more of a mysterious swag out of Jon. For example, I would cut the "What the fuck" lines in the beginning, and just have his action explain to the audience that he too is unsure of what is happening, rather than having to explain this through words.
I was a little confused in the beginning, and I believe that you need to incorporate more character background so that we can see his "mistake" grow into something that builds his character through the different acts.
I think that you have a great start and I know that your vision already has ideas bouncing around in your head to make this special. Keep working my dude... I look forward to seeing the next draft.
Oh...
And one quick note:
This is a very visually driven film, with many fantastical stunts, locations, and props. All of the locations seem very hard to come by, particularly an airplane. The gauntlet with the retractable riot shield along with many of the hi-tech weapons mentioned in the script are of course pretty awesome to see in actions films, yet are definitely a logistics challenge for student films. Do you plan in making the gauntlet shield? I love all the description you provided in the fighting sequences, I can really picture the battles, although it is a very challenging thing to make look realistic on film obviously. Although, I know it’s not our first rodeo, so I can’t wait to see how they turn out. Who knew karma would be such a smart ass? Just a tip, I hear 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 color space makes a big difference for keying green screens. Am very intrigued with the overall concept of the film and I don’t want to bore you with more logistics talk. The imaginative idea of your film doesn’t need to rely on such fantastical locations for it to turn out well, although the often help visually if they can truly be attainable. I though you did an excellent job of dialogue for your characters, I even like the repetitive line others were not so thrilled on. I think his monotonic response is truly fitting for his character. Are all the Honorless going to be sarcastic smart asses like Karma and Jon? It could be an interesting approach if you expand it into a series. This is definitely the most ambitious action film I have ever seen developed by a student; which is pretty awesome. I would start looking for good CGI artist now or you could end up having to make compromises in that realm that you are less than thrilled with further down the road. I love the vision. What was Jon’s profession before he died?
ReplyDeleteJason, Jason, Jason...
ReplyDeleteWhy am I not surprised that you would write something like this :p overall great script! I was hooked at the very first page which is a good thing. I was able to keep up with you story up to the part with Jon and the blad guy watching Seinfeld but after that, it was really just all over the place. don't get me wrong, the concept, hands down i love it! You didn't go all religious which is good cause that subject wouldn't really go well with the story. The choice of names, the characters, the rules of that place. I LOVE IT! you've taken an "existing" world and made it into your own. Like I said at the beginning my only problem with this is too all over the place at the end and men, I hate to admit it but you need some serious doe to pull it off (but hey! I might be wrong too) but you might want to have plan B locations for more feasible shooting.
And for Jon using the line "What the fuck?!" three time, I mean c'mon Jason, I'm pretty sure you can easily come up with three more creative ways to cuss :)