I'd like to say a few things about this cycle before yous guys comment. First is about the film journal. Honestly, my journal isn't as up to par as I'd like it to be at this stage, but I started from ground up (practically) with my script, and I put a bit more focus into that. Next cycle my journal will be entirely flushed out (as with my script)!
That being said, I would like everyone to take the time to re-read my new script. It changed quite a bit, but it should still have the same BALLS that it did before, just on a student level.
Other than practical changes, I added a personal element to round out both Jon and Karma characters. I shrunk and altered the massive exposition dialogue scene, rearranged the flashback were we learn that Jon is a hit-man to be earlier in the script, and now include a sequence (including an unfinshed montage) where Jon is actually reaping.
With such a drastic rewrite I have some concerns that I want everyone to keep an eye out for. Basically, make sure that there are no story or plot holes that I forgot to include. For example, until about 30 mins ago I realized Karma's name was never said in this version of the script. Let me know if I neglected an important detail, or if there is still mass confusion with this version.
I hope you enjoy, and I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback!
Script: I really like the new beginning you have. It makes more sense and without knowing EVERYTHING about the character I already like him. I really like how each location "fell into" the next , I think that'll be really cool when edited together. And this version seems much more doable than the last draft, as well as, more interesting. I think I remember you saying that you wanted to make this an introduction to a feature that made people want to buy your idea and I think you have that here! Unfortunately, I have no cool ideas on what reaping would look like…when I think of reaping I think of the Hunger Games (which is a whole different kind of reaping) and Dead Like Me, but there's no "Michael-fucking-Bay reaping in that.
Cinematography: There's not a ton to go on which you mentioned in the blog, but I can see how those three films would be a good reference point for your film. I've only seen Inception (I know, I'm sorry! I'm working on watching more films) and I can see how the dark colors, contrast and depth would work within you film (It's sort of how I pictured it while reading).
Production Design: Um… For a parking lot location, if none of those ones works out for you, you could always use the one near APMA… I work at a Coffee Bean at Cave Creek and the 101 and that might work or you…If you'd like I'll take a picture of it for you :)
Costume Design: How on earth do you have time to play video games!? Anyways, I HAVE SEEN LotR (at least half of it) and without consciously doing it I imagined your hooded figures as such, so that's got to be a good sign…
Editing: Well, based on your cinematography demo reel I think you'll be able to do a lot of the editing and effects by yourself, but it's good to know that you're already thinking about where to get help if you need it.
Sound Design:
Overall, I think your script is much more doable on a student level, but has the same BALLS that your first script had ;) I can't think of/didn't take note of any glaring problems. I think you're journal definitely needs to be fleshed out in more detail (which you already know), but its still evident that you know how your film is going to look.
As far as the opening scene, I like it a lot, my only problem is, is that there isn’t much of a “fight” or conflict between Jon and the two figures. It seems they go down really easy. I would like to see some action in this first scene, to get the audience into it, not to much to take the audience out, but just enough to where we can see how much military Jon actual knows and how he fights in the line of battle.
I like the transitions a lot as well; he is in each scene just enough time to get an understanding of his whereabouts, before he goes onto the next location. I think this is a film that is very very ambitious still, but definitely can be done. I like it a lot and think it is a great re-write. I understand who Jon is now and what he does exactly since he is a grim reaper. There is more back story to why he killed himself and exactly what event made him off himself. I like the dialogue between Karma and Jon, and if I were you I would put Karma’s name at the very end when she is at Jon’s bar talking with the figure. I definitely get a Wanted feeling with the whole office-building scene and think it works great. If you can think of a place to put the flashback of how he killed his brother or maybe, throughout the film it is just inserts that really are unknown but come together in end as flashbacks of the day he killed his own brother. Maybe make them out of focus and blurry in his mind because that would represent him not even knowing that his brother was in that platoon that he killed. I think that would further the back story even more.
Great rewrite. I would defiantly have the Karma character as a big, because it would go with the saying that Karma is a bitch. And it being a girl can go with that saying, maybe even before the credits have a quote from someone saying the line “Karma is a bitch” that would be kind of cool. Look at Inception scenes for the snow scene as well, that will help out a lot.
Great point Jeff! I agree COMPLETELY. How's this? The reaper gets up (with glass in his face) and a short struggle happens between the two! Easy enough, and will raise the steaks (intentional) a bit.
Thank you! Appreciate it. .... and you too Jennifer J.
Personally, at the beginning I like the fact that it is a private bar. It works to articulate your story and introduce Jon and his situation as making the audience “intimate” with him. but I don’t like the relationship you (consciously or not) have created between drinking and the emotional state of the character.
I have some problems with the V.O in the beginning. You can re-paragraph the text to make it sounds more interesting. EX: JONATHAN STANLEY (V.O.) (CONT’D) The worst part is, I was good at it. And... I liked it. Until today. This is my first, and last chance to be a hero.
JONATHAN STANLEY (V.O.) (CONT’D) I was good at it. And... I liked it. Until today. This is my only chance to be a hero.
Both say the same but the second one is direct and it sounds stronger. You can do the same with the previous ones.
Also, It can work much better if you introduce Jon in a more “personal” place as for example in a toilet. Can you imagine Jon sitting in his toilet meditating about his life and the guys with the massive guns pointing at him? I think is much stronger beginning.
You have great descriptions of the action but I found, in some points, unclear descriptions/reactions of the characters that for an actor or other crew members can be a kind of confuse. For example: A simultaneous look of disgust and pleasure shows on his face. You can be more specific than that. Don’t you think?
On the other hand in page 9 the Karma says: It’s almost as if you’re actually reliving it. I would like to know why do you think you need that sentence.
By the way, in page 9 & 16 you also mention the name of Karma. As I told you, I prefer the karma with no name. Also I would avoid expressions as JESUS CHRIST! (page 10) Or any other religious connotations.
Also I like how you ending up, but I felt that I am missing something in between. I think I do not really get the story 100% clear. Curiously, I did not have that impression reading your first version. About the grim reaper I do not know what exactly you mean with that. Do you mean a personification of death? If the answer is yes, I would make Jon be the grim reaper as well. What do you think?
Overall, is good. However, I would spend more time rewriting from page 13 to the end. I.m excited to be part of this project.
Thank you Patricia. We could probably discuss for HOURS about the ins and outs of this story, as you bring up a TON of theoretical and religious questions. So... lets do that sometime!
Your beginning is a lot better. I'm pretty into it now, whereas before I was just thinking "what the fuck".........kind of like your character. (; However, the dialogue at the end of page 2 and beginning of page 3 feels really forced, when Jon is talking to himself. It seems pretty clearly expositional and staged. Michael Bay clearly makes millions for a reason - love the clever underwater WTF (; Such a great way to use the same dialogue in a different way, haha. I feel like the title cards come a little late considering it is a short film, but that's probably kind of nit-picky. I just think that having 5 pages before the title card sets it up like it's going to be a much longer film. I do like the dramatic reveal though that he is dead and he didn't know it for the first third of your script. I really don't think that Karma saying WTF seems right. Since Jon says it twice, having her say it will be kind of odd.
On to your journal...
I still think it's a big story problem that you don't know if Karma is male or female. It really will affect the dynamic of your narrative so you really need to decide now. As you don't have a lot of description in your journal, it's hard to know what you're going for exactly, which I know you will address later so not criticizing. BUT I think your films you use as reference points are dead-on with what I envisioned while reading your script so great job with that. I especially felt that referencing Inception in your cinematography section resonated with what I was picturing. I can't wait to see you develop your visual ideas in the journal more because so far it looks pretty close to what I would imagine. (:
Kristine, maybe you can help with the aspect of karma's gender.
Things I would like to consider with my story and characters:
Jon: uses guns as his weapon. Karma: Uses manipulation as his/her weapon. Jon: Big Brute type Karma: smart ass, all knowing (size doesn't matter)
I am trying to create a contrast between the two characters, and I think it would be well presented with a man and woman dynamic. However... I don't think that is the ONLY way to create this contrast. Honestly, I feel I would be doing myself a disservice by limiting my casting options to only men, or only man and woman. I feel that if I have as many people audition as possible I will have a better dynamic based on actual character.
Either way I will create different scenarios based on a man or woman playing Karma so that once it is official I will have a jump start on creating that dynamic want.
Let me know if this help address your concern, and if not we should chat about it more.
Basically, I think the Karma character being a woman would be the easiest way to create contrast, but you run the risk of her being just like any other typical sexy female villain. You only have 15 or so minutes to establish the contrast which would be easier with a different gender than Jon. However I think it would be more creative to take away the sexual tension factor of that character, because I feel a lot of people rely on that sort of thing too often. On the other hand, Karma really sounds like a girl's name. It's up to you. There are positives and negatives to both. I made that comment because to me it is less about which one you choose but more about the idea that you actually pick one to show that you know your own story and are confident in your choices.
I have to say, you take feedback extremely well. You never seemed to have taken any offense by it, and were respectable and professional about everything. I think that will help you in the long run of your career.
I felt like you incorporated our conversation into your script very well; and the office scene we came up with really works, if I do say so myself. However, I feel like all of your scene could be opening scenes, if that makes any sense; except for the last of course. Reading this version of the script, I saw that you really took the 'little details' conversation we had and implemented that to your advantage. Wee know the character better and faster than we did in the last draft.
I see that you and I have issues with our journals, thanks for sticking up for me betwubbs, however it is something I should have done on my own time. However, we have had less time than others to do it and I know you, like myself, did not want to continue until your script was set, you know...the way ACTUAL FILMMAKERS DO IT.
But what you have is a start, a better start than the last one. I really hate saying this, but the dialogue in the first fight scene, borders along the line of Troll 2. "You Can't Piss on Hospitality!" That can be fixed easily, so don't worry. I know you are missing a few sequences in your script, but we can knock those out in a day. I think the main thing you need making sure 'A' gets us to 'B' and that 'B' gets us to 'C'. If that makes sense.
I am glad to see that you have taken what everyone has thought and really ran with it. I think that this story serves your purpose so much better. I really like that this is an actual story that can be accomplished in 15 minutes and then can lead to other things for you.
I love that we actually know something about Jon. By giving us some information about him, we automatically become more related towards him. I think that's a great change that you've made.
With that being said, force Trent to help you with dialogue.
Can I just say I am excited to shoot an action movie and the wheels are already turning. ACTION sequences!
We can talk more about everything and start fleshing out everything as far as visuals go.
Overall I think your script is much improved over the last one. It's not as confusing as it was before, and I think it flows a lot better.
I really like the costume designs you've mentioned for the reapers. Nazgul and Dark Brotherhood are all good things to draw from in regards to how they're supposed to look, and it really heightens the amount of coolness that'll come from them jumping around and gun-kattaing everything in sight.
However, there is one thing that really bothers me: the reaping. Compared to the action you see in the opening scene, the reaping you get with the Office guy is kind of boring, and certainly not the "Michael Fucking-Bay" style reaping you were talking about earlier. There's just no challenge to the job at all, and so the initial test the character goes through at the very beginning just seems pointless overall. I guess boring isn't really the right word, because the scene is more suspenseful, but at this point in the script I'm not looking for suspense, I'm looking for action!
Overall though, I think that this is a much more doable version of your idea and I think that this will really be a great project.
I agree Ricky about the suspense scene not quite fitting in a MICHAEL FUCKING BAY flick.... But what I am hoping to show through the montage is the many different scenarios brought up through reaping. I don't want to ONLY have hardcore action, I want a good variety of action, suspense, and with Trent's help maybe some comic relief in the character interaction. In fact, in my initial script I had Jon falling in love with a woman he was supposed to take to Hell.
I don't want to force the audience (or potentially distributors) to look at this and only see action. I want them to think, THIS COULD HAPPEN, OR THAT, AND MAYBE... if I can open the palettes by serving a "sampler platter" instead of just one item, it might serve better in the long run. And if distributors are thinking THIS, THAT, and MAYBE, They have already signed on the dotted line.
Huuuuge improvement from your last draft, and I see that you put a lot of time and effort into building Jon into someone that we can relate to and care about. The character development in this draft really helped in flushing out much of the complexity you had within your draft one plot. After reading your most recent draft I believe that you have a better understanding of where you want your story to go, and what you want the audience to feel with each scene.
You really did utilize the class session and the blog to create something that if I had to guess, you are more proud of, and I'm more than happy that we were able to help out... if we did at all. I like where you have gone with this so far and we'll talk more on Thursday... but keep working. A very interesting idea is in the works my friend.
Also... I thought that the transitions from setting to setting as he is running from Karma was a great way to portray Jon's past whereabouts. Very visual in that sense. Swell.
You say in your journal that as a student you know this project is almost impossible to make, but I don’t think that’s the case. Not with the revision anyways. Maybe you wrote that in regards to the first draft, and the project is still very ambitious location and fx wise. However, I think you’re just the person to tackle the effects that will be the most beneficial to your film. Judging by the title sequence in your directing film, I already know you’ll have quality special effects lined up for The Honorless. The scale of your project is much more manageable now, and I don’t feel it sacrifices the exposition of key story points in the slightest. In fact, I found the revising to be much more straightforward, yet keeps me intrigued by the ever changing world of our protagonist. The rubber ducky was an intriguing touch, and as Derek pointed out the setting shifting was a creative way to reveal pieces of Jon’s past without the need of flashbacks. I like the contrast you’ve created between the action sequences and the Carpenter-esque suspenseful building scene. I feel it strengthens the pace of the film, as opposed to just full throttle action for the duration. An action packed reaping sequence stands out to me as the biggest challenge to your film. I picture lots on individuals running from an unseen aggressor to be tricked into their inescapable fate. Perhaps it could go into a visually expressive animated sequence. For live action, I know you have a far better horror film background, so you probably have a pretty solid idea in mind for how you want the reapings to look. I like the dark, hard, cold feel you have in mind for your film, it fit’s perfectly with my impression of Jon. Will Karma have the iconic reaper blade at any point, or are you trying to avoid that? I think this will be an awesome film to watch, and leaves plenty of open ends to explore if you were to expand into a series or feature film.
I am glad that you have created a much more feasible script. I thought this was a huge improvement from the last piece and you have really focused in on a more interesting character. I started to get less interested toward the end of the movie, especially the ending, because I feel like it's a sell out, as in I feel like it kind of leaves us hanging because I want to see the moment in which Jon finds out Karma is not telling the truth. I think that you should go over this script a few times more and polish it up. The dialogue could be stronger. I feel like mach of the dialogue can be speak for itself in an action, and I think thats one trend that falls in action related movies. Characters often stat the obvious.
Overall I think you have a lot of strong moments in this draft, I just don't think the end is one of them. Keep up the progress.
I'm really excited with your new script! I think it works a loooott better and much more feasible than your original draft. Definitely like the flow and the series of events going on, there's a much more structured story and I was actually able to follow your story :P I like that you made the story much more personal to him when you added his brother. I'm curious where you're going on that one and what kind of deal he's making with Karma. I don't have any suggestions for that one, sorry :/ but keep working on it! It feels like there's a gap on the story but It's obviously not done yet, so still waiting what kind of awesome stuff you may come up with :) I just read this comment you had a while ago to ricky "in my initial script I had Jon falling in love with a woman he was supposed to take to Hell." I like that idea.. A LOT, my only concern is it might change the tone of your story, and I'm not sure if that's what your going for.
Some of the notes I had after reading your script are as follows:
--I kinda miss the whole introduction about the Honorless and the Hole. That's one of the things I really liked from your first draft, although it was narrated a little dull, it got me interested in the story and your new concept of grim reaping. It might be confusing to some people who haven't read your original script who or why they are called the Honerless, and what is the Hole. Just try to keep that in mind.
--your scenes at the end, Honestly the whole TV thing sounded so cheap to me. Like, when they watch him reap, whose point of view are they watching it from? Go on a more creative approach on that one. I feel like that last scene is the only scene through out your whole film where you can place them in "The Hole" since Jon isn't there and where Karma and the creature can feel more "at home" and discuss about Jon and the whole reaping business. Like what you said from your journal, if you're creating a different world for The Hole, make the surroundings and the objects around it far from human objects. If you haven't watch Hellboy, I say it's definitely worth the look. They've done an amazing job creating a new world for the mythical creatures of that movie. I'm not sure if that's exactly the look you're going for but I think it may give you some ideas :) So instead of watching him from a TV maybe watch him from something else, like a...an eye? or a i don't know some kind of portal, or a glass? I'm out of ideas ryt now but when I think of one I will definitely let you know, or if you really want to go with a TV, maybe do a stack of old TV's showing all of the reapers. Maybe that's how Karma keeps track of his/her grim reapers :) something like that.
--this is exactly what I wrote after "Honestly, I don't know where your climax is, or there seems like there is none."
Costume Design: I like where you're going it, but don't forget to give it a modern twist. Still suggesting Hellboy for that
Production Design:
I wrote down the locations you had on your script, and what I think about each one: - Jon's house/private bar -not much comments on this one, Its his personal space, sets up your character, I like the hints of his past military life. - pool -challenging but exciting :) - penthouse - intersection - snowbank - good choice, definitely a big change on scene but I think expands his ability as a grim reaper. Only thought on this one is it feels flat to me. Honestly, I don't see this movie with flat locations, I see elevations, instead of just running, more like jumping away and leaping from places to places throughout the action scenes - forest - same comment as the snow bank - rooftop - office building/lobby/stairs - parking lot - change this please :) I think a cool alternative would be on a shipping port, I can just imagine jon running in between the space of stacked cargo crates and the camera panning from the other end of the cargo crate :) or if it's hard to obtain that location, maybe use a train yard, let me know what you think about that location
Now, this is why I got excited with your movie :) I was trying to come up some ideas for you on how grim reaping should look like, or maybe feel like? I was kinda thinking maybe you're being sucked into something? And then I remember this dvd feature I saw for the movie Jumper, and I thought that would be an awesome effect you can add on your movie, not necessarily for grim reaping but from jumping from places to places, (and like others have said, I like how he "falls" from places to places) here's a link of some behind the scenes of the movie I saw online... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOvKzo4Y9vU ...but this isn't exactly the one I wanted to show you, I don't know if you've watched this movie before but give it a look, it's not the best story but I think the technical aspects and stylistic choice of this film will help you a lot :) if you have money to spare for an extra dvd on your shelf, go get yourself one, but make sure to get the one that has features on it, if you do watch the "How to make an actor jump" that one was pretty cool :) I think you'll like it a lot. It definitely has that Michael-fucking-Bay you were going for on a much feasible, student film level :) So yeah, like I what I texted you, I hope you're excited as I am with this one lol :P
Can't wait for more! keep it!
-Gellie
p.s. sorry, I didn't realize i was writing this long already :P
I think that you are on the right track as far as "bringing your script back to reality". I think that the story is still very strong and I feel as though you are getting closer to having well-developed characters. That being said, I still don't care enough about John. I get that he is a decorated veteran, but you have to give him something unique, for example, Johnny Utah from Point Break. While cheesy, he was still given "the Ohio State QB who blew out his knee in the biggest game of his life" story to help provide more back story to the character and I think that you would benefit greatly from developing a better back story for him. Karma also seems like a very flat character and you need to spice up his dialogue and vocabulary to make him feel like he is a character of importance. Overall, great job, but you definitely have some work cut out for you.
I'd like to say a few things about this cycle before yous guys comment. First is about the film journal. Honestly, my journal isn't as up to par as I'd like it to be at this stage, but I started from ground up (practically) with my script, and I put a bit more focus into that. Next cycle my journal will be entirely flushed out (as with my script)!
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I would like everyone to take the time to re-read my new script. It changed quite a bit, but it should still have the same BALLS that it did before, just on a student level.
Other than practical changes, I added a personal element to round out both Jon and Karma characters. I shrunk and altered the massive exposition dialogue scene, rearranged the flashback were we learn that Jon is a hit-man to be earlier in the script, and now include a sequence (including an unfinshed montage) where Jon is actually reaping.
With such a drastic rewrite I have some concerns that I want everyone to keep an eye out for. Basically, make sure that there are no story or plot holes that I forgot to include. For example, until about 30 mins ago I realized Karma's name was never said in this version of the script. Let me know if I neglected an important detail, or if there is still mass confusion with this version.
I hope you enjoy, and I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback!
Script: I really like the new beginning you have. It makes more sense and without knowing EVERYTHING about the character I already like him. I really like how each location "fell into" the next , I think that'll be really cool when edited together. And this version seems much more doable than the last draft, as well as, more interesting. I think I remember you saying that you wanted to make this an introduction to a feature that made people want to buy your idea and I think you have that here! Unfortunately, I have no cool ideas on what reaping would look like…when I think of reaping I think of the Hunger Games (which is a whole different kind of reaping) and Dead Like Me, but there's no "Michael-fucking-Bay reaping in that.
ReplyDeleteCinematography: There's not a ton to go on which you mentioned in the blog, but I can see how those three films would be a good reference point for your film. I've only seen Inception (I know, I'm sorry! I'm working on watching more films) and I can see how the dark colors, contrast and depth would work within you film (It's sort of how I pictured it while reading).
Production Design: Um… For a parking lot location, if none of those ones works out for you, you could always use the one near APMA… I work at a Coffee Bean at Cave Creek and the 101 and that might work or you…If you'd like I'll take a picture of it for you :)
Costume Design: How on earth do you have time to play video games!? Anyways, I HAVE SEEN LotR (at least half of it) and without consciously doing it I imagined your hooded figures as such, so that's got to be a good sign…
Editing: Well, based on your cinematography demo reel I think you'll be able to do a lot of the editing and effects by yourself, but it's good to know that you're already thinking about where to get help if you need it.
Sound Design:
Overall, I think your script is much more doable on a student level, but has the same BALLS that your first script had ;) I can't think of/didn't take note of any glaring problems. I think you're journal definitely needs to be fleshed out in more detail (which you already know), but its still evident that you know how your film is going to look.
As far as the opening scene, I like it a lot, my only problem is, is that there isn’t much of a “fight” or conflict between Jon and the two figures. It seems they go down really easy. I would like to see some action in this first scene, to get the audience into it, not to much to take the audience out, but just enough to where we can see how much military Jon actual knows and how he fights in the line of battle.
ReplyDeleteI like the transitions a lot as well; he is in each scene just enough time to get an understanding of his whereabouts, before he goes onto the next location. I think this is a film that is very very ambitious still, but definitely can be done. I like it a lot and think it is a great re-write. I understand who Jon is now and what he does exactly since he is a grim reaper. There is more back story to why he killed himself and exactly what event made him off himself. I like the dialogue between Karma and Jon, and if I were you I would put Karma’s name at the very end when she is at Jon’s bar talking with the figure. I definitely get a Wanted feeling with the whole office-building scene and think it works great. If you can think of a place to put the flashback of how he killed his brother or maybe, throughout the film it is just inserts that really are unknown but come together in end as flashbacks of the day he killed his own brother. Maybe make them out of focus and blurry in his mind because that would represent him not even knowing that his brother was in that platoon that he killed. I think that would further the back story even more.
Great rewrite. I would defiantly have the Karma character as a big, because it would go with the saying that Karma is a bitch. And it being a girl can go with that saying, maybe even before the credits have a quote from someone saying the line “Karma is a bitch” that would be kind of cool. Look at Inception scenes for the snow scene as well, that will help out a lot.
Great point Jeff! I agree COMPLETELY. How's this? The reaper gets up (with glass in his face) and a short struggle happens between the two! Easy enough, and will raise the steaks (intentional) a bit.
DeleteThank you! Appreciate it. .... and you too Jennifer J.
Personally, at the beginning I like the fact that it is a private bar. It works to articulate your story and introduce Jon and his situation as making the audience “intimate” with him. but I don’t like the relationship you (consciously or not) have created between drinking and the emotional state of the character.
ReplyDeleteI have some problems with the V.O in the beginning. You can re-paragraph the text to make it sounds more interesting.
EX:
JONATHAN STANLEY (V.O.) (CONT’D)
The worst part is, I was good at
it. And... I liked it. Until
today. This is my first, and last
chance to be a hero.
JONATHAN STANLEY (V.O.) (CONT’D)
I was good at it. And... I liked it. Until
today. This is my only chance to be a hero.
Both say the same but the second one is direct and it sounds stronger. You can do the same with the previous ones.
Also, It can work much better if you introduce Jon in a more “personal” place as for example in a toilet. Can you imagine Jon sitting in his toilet meditating about his life and the guys with the massive guns pointing at him? I think is much stronger beginning.
You have great descriptions of the action but I found, in some points, unclear descriptions/reactions of the characters that for an actor or other crew members can be a kind of confuse. For example:
A simultaneous look of disgust and pleasure
shows on his face.
You can be more specific than that. Don’t you think?
On the other hand in page 9 the Karma says: It’s almost as if you’re actually
reliving it. I would like to know why do you think you need that sentence.
By the way, in page 9 & 16 you also mention the name of Karma. As I told you, I prefer the karma with no name. Also I would avoid expressions as JESUS CHRIST! (page 10) Or any other religious connotations.
Also I like how you ending up, but I felt that I am missing something in between. I think I do not really get the story 100% clear. Curiously, I did not have that impression reading your first version.
About the grim reaper I do not know what exactly you mean with that. Do you mean a personification of death? If the answer is yes, I would make Jon be the grim reaper as well. What do you think?
Overall, is good. However, I would spend more time rewriting from page 13 to the end.
I.m excited to be part of this project.
Thank you Patricia. We could probably discuss for HOURS about the ins and outs of this story, as you bring up a TON of theoretical and religious questions. So... lets do that sometime!
ReplyDeleteYour beginning is a lot better. I'm pretty into it now, whereas before I was just thinking "what the fuck".........kind of like your character. (;
ReplyDeleteHowever, the dialogue at the end of page 2 and beginning of page 3 feels really forced, when Jon is talking to himself. It seems pretty clearly expositional and staged.
Michael Bay clearly makes millions for a reason - love the clever underwater WTF (; Such a great way to use the same dialogue in a different way, haha.
I feel like the title cards come a little late considering it is a short film, but that's probably kind of nit-picky. I just think that having 5 pages before the title card sets it up like it's going to be a much longer film. I do like the dramatic reveal though that he is dead and he didn't know it for the first third of your script.
I really don't think that Karma saying WTF seems right. Since Jon says it twice, having her say it will be kind of odd.
On to your journal...
I still think it's a big story problem that you don't know if Karma is male or female. It really will affect the dynamic of your narrative so you really need to decide now.
As you don't have a lot of description in your journal, it's hard to know what you're going for exactly, which I know you will address later so not criticizing. BUT I think your films you use as reference points are dead-on with what I envisioned while reading your script so great job with that. I especially felt that referencing Inception in your cinematography section resonated with what I was picturing. I can't wait to see you develop your visual ideas in the journal more because so far it looks pretty close to what I would imagine. (:
Kristine, maybe you can help with the aspect of karma's gender.
DeleteThings I would like to consider with my story and characters:
Jon: uses guns as his weapon.
Karma: Uses manipulation as his/her weapon.
Jon: Big Brute type
Karma: smart ass, all knowing (size doesn't matter)
I am trying to create a contrast between the two characters, and I think it would be well presented with a man and woman dynamic. However... I don't think that is the ONLY way to create this contrast. Honestly, I feel I would be doing myself a disservice by limiting my casting options to only men, or only man and woman. I feel that if I have as many people audition as possible I will have a better dynamic based on actual character.
Either way I will create different scenarios based on a man or woman playing Karma so that once it is official I will have a jump start on creating that dynamic want.
Let me know if this help address your concern, and if not we should chat about it more.
Basically, I think the Karma character being a woman would be the easiest way to create contrast, but you run the risk of her being just like any other typical sexy female villain. You only have 15 or so minutes to establish the contrast which would be easier with a different gender than Jon. However I think it would be more creative to take away the sexual tension factor of that character, because I feel a lot of people rely on that sort of thing too often. On the other hand, Karma really sounds like a girl's name. It's up to you. There are positives and negatives to both. I made that comment because to me it is less about which one you choose but more about the idea that you actually pick one to show that you know your own story and are confident in your choices.
DeleteJason,
ReplyDeleteI have to say, you take feedback extremely well. You never seemed to have taken any offense by it, and were respectable and professional about everything. I think that will help you in the long run of your career.
I felt like you incorporated our conversation into your script very well; and the office scene we came up with really works, if I do say so myself. However, I feel like all of your scene could be opening scenes, if that makes any sense; except for the last of course. Reading this version of the script, I saw that you really took the 'little details' conversation we had and implemented that to your advantage. Wee know the character better and faster than we did in the last draft.
I see that you and I have issues with our journals, thanks for sticking up for me betwubbs, however it is something I should have done on my own time. However, we have had less time than others to do it and I know you, like myself, did not want to continue until your script was set, you know...the way ACTUAL FILMMAKERS DO IT.
But what you have is a start, a better start than the last one. I really hate saying this, but the dialogue in the first fight scene, borders along the line of Troll 2. "You Can't Piss on Hospitality!" That can be fixed easily, so don't worry. I know you are missing a few sequences in your script, but we can knock those out in a day. I think the main thing you need making sure 'A' gets us to 'B' and that 'B' gets us to 'C'. If that makes sense.
Jason,
ReplyDeleteI am glad to see that you have taken what everyone has thought and really ran with it. I think that this story serves your purpose so much better. I really like that this is an actual story that can be accomplished in 15 minutes and then can lead to other things for you.
I love that we actually know something about Jon. By giving us some information about him, we automatically become more related towards him. I think that's a great change that you've made.
With that being said, force Trent to help you with dialogue.
Can I just say I am excited to shoot an action movie and the wheels are already turning. ACTION sequences!
We can talk more about everything and start fleshing out everything as far as visuals go.
Overall I think your script is much improved over the last one. It's not as confusing as it was before, and I think it flows a lot better.
ReplyDeleteI really like the costume designs you've mentioned for the reapers. Nazgul and Dark Brotherhood are all good things to draw from in regards to how they're supposed to look, and it really heightens the amount of coolness that'll come from them jumping around and gun-kattaing everything in sight.
However, there is one thing that really bothers me: the reaping. Compared to the action you see in the opening scene, the reaping you get with the Office guy is kind of boring, and certainly not the "Michael Fucking-Bay" style reaping you were talking about earlier. There's just no challenge to the job at all, and so the initial test the character goes through at the very beginning just seems pointless overall. I guess boring isn't really the right word, because the scene is more suspenseful, but at this point in the script I'm not looking for suspense, I'm looking for action!
Overall though, I think that this is a much more doable version of your idea and I think that this will really be a great project.
I agree Ricky about the suspense scene not quite fitting in a MICHAEL FUCKING BAY flick.... But what I am hoping to show through the montage is the many different scenarios brought up through reaping. I don't want to ONLY have hardcore action, I want a good variety of action, suspense, and with Trent's help maybe some comic relief in the character interaction. In fact, in my initial script I had Jon falling in love with a woman he was supposed to take to Hell.
DeleteI don't want to force the audience (or potentially distributors) to look at this and only see action. I want them to think, THIS COULD HAPPEN, OR THAT, AND MAYBE... if I can open the palettes by serving a "sampler platter" instead of just one item, it might serve better in the long run. And if distributors are thinking THIS, THAT, and MAYBE, They have already signed on the dotted line.
Huuuuge improvement from your last draft, and I see that you put a lot of time and effort into building Jon into someone that we can relate to and care about. The character development in this draft really helped in flushing out much of the complexity you had within your draft one plot. After reading your most recent draft I believe that you have a better understanding of where you want your story to go, and what you want the audience to feel with each scene.
ReplyDeleteYou really did utilize the class session and the blog to create something that if I had to guess, you are more proud of, and I'm more than happy that we were able to help out... if we did at all. I like where you have gone with this so far and we'll talk more on Thursday... but keep working. A very interesting idea is in the works my friend.
Also... I thought that the transitions from setting to setting as he is running from Karma was a great way to portray Jon's past whereabouts. Very visual in that sense. Swell.
ReplyDeleteYou say in your journal that as a student you know this project is almost impossible to make, but I don’t think that’s the case. Not with the revision anyways. Maybe you wrote that in regards to the first draft, and the project is still very ambitious location and fx wise. However, I think you’re just the person to tackle the effects that will be the most beneficial to your film. Judging by the title sequence in your directing film, I already know you’ll have quality special effects lined up for The Honorless.
ReplyDeleteThe scale of your project is much more manageable now, and I don’t feel it sacrifices the exposition of key story points in the slightest. In fact, I found the revising to be much more straightforward, yet keeps me intrigued by the ever changing world of our protagonist. The rubber ducky was an intriguing touch, and as Derek pointed out the setting shifting was a creative way to reveal pieces of Jon’s past without the need of flashbacks. I like the contrast you’ve created between the action sequences and the Carpenter-esque suspenseful building scene. I feel it strengthens the pace of the film, as opposed to just full throttle action for the duration.
An action packed reaping sequence stands out to me as the biggest challenge to your film. I picture lots on individuals running from an unseen aggressor to be tricked into their inescapable fate. Perhaps it could go into a visually expressive animated sequence. For live action, I know you have a far better horror film background, so you probably have a pretty solid idea in mind for how you want the reapings to look. I like the dark, hard, cold feel you have in mind for your film, it fit’s perfectly with my impression of Jon. Will Karma have the iconic reaper blade at any point, or are you trying to avoid that? I think this will be an awesome film to watch, and leaves plenty of open ends to explore if you were to expand into a series or feature film.
I am glad that you have created a much more feasible script. I thought this was a huge improvement from the last piece and you have really focused in on a more interesting character. I started to get less interested toward the end of the movie, especially the ending, because I feel like it's a sell out, as in I feel like it kind of leaves us hanging because I want to see the moment in which Jon finds out Karma is not telling the truth. I think that you should go over this script a few times more and polish it up. The dialogue could be stronger. I feel like mach of the dialogue can be speak for itself in an action, and I think thats one trend that falls in action related movies. Characters often stat the obvious.
ReplyDeleteOverall I think you have a lot of strong moments in this draft, I just don't think the end is one of them. Keep up the progress.
Jason :)
ReplyDeleteI'm really excited with your new script! I think it works a loooott better and much more feasible than your original draft. Definitely like the flow and the series of events going on, there's a much more structured story and I was actually able to follow your story :P I like that you made the story much more personal to him when you added his brother. I'm curious where you're going on that one and what kind of deal he's making with Karma. I don't have any suggestions for that one, sorry :/ but keep working on it! It feels like there's a gap on the story but It's obviously not done yet, so still waiting what kind of awesome stuff you may come up with :) I just read this comment you had a while ago to ricky "in my initial script I had Jon falling in love with a woman he was supposed to take to Hell." I like that idea.. A LOT, my only concern is it might change the tone of your story, and I'm not sure if that's what your going for.
Some of the notes I had after reading your script are as follows:
--I kinda miss the whole introduction about the Honorless and the Hole. That's one of the things I really liked from your first draft, although it was narrated a little dull, it got me interested in the story and your new concept of grim reaping. It might be confusing to some people who haven't read your original script who or why they are called the Honerless, and what is the Hole. Just try to keep that in mind.
--your scenes at the end, Honestly the whole TV thing sounded so cheap to me. Like, when they watch him reap, whose point of view are they watching it from? Go on a more creative approach on that one. I feel like that last scene is the only scene through out your whole film where you can place them in "The Hole" since Jon isn't there and where Karma and the creature can feel more "at home" and discuss about Jon and the whole reaping business. Like what you said from your journal, if you're creating a different world for The Hole, make the surroundings and the objects around it far from human objects. If you haven't watch Hellboy, I say it's definitely worth the look. They've done an amazing job creating a new world for the mythical creatures of that movie. I'm not sure if that's exactly the look you're going for but I think it may give you some ideas :) So instead of watching him from a TV maybe watch him from something else, like a...an eye? or a i don't know some kind of portal, or a glass? I'm out of ideas ryt now but when I think of one I will definitely let you know, or if you really want to go with a TV, maybe do a stack of old TV's showing all of the reapers. Maybe that's how Karma keeps track of his/her grim reapers :) something like that.
--this is exactly what I wrote after "Honestly, I don't know where your climax is, or there seems like there is none."
Ok, here's for the fun part :)
ReplyDeleteCostume Design: I like where you're going it, but don't forget to give it a modern twist. Still suggesting Hellboy for that
Production Design:
I wrote down the locations you had on your script, and what I think about each one:
- Jon's house/private bar
-not much comments on this one, Its his personal space, sets up your character, I like the hints of his past military life.
- pool
-challenging but exciting :)
- penthouse
- intersection
- snowbank
- good choice, definitely a big change on scene but I think expands his ability as a grim reaper. Only thought on this one is it feels flat to me. Honestly, I don't see this movie with flat locations, I see elevations, instead of just running, more like jumping away and leaping from places to places throughout the action scenes
- forest
- same comment as the snow bank
- rooftop
- office building/lobby/stairs
- parking lot
- change this please :) I think a cool alternative would be on a shipping port, I can just imagine jon running in between the space of stacked cargo crates and the camera panning from the other end of the cargo crate :) or if it's hard to obtain that location, maybe use a train yard, let me know what you think about that location
Now, this is why I got excited with your movie :) I was trying to come up some ideas for you on how grim reaping should look like, or maybe feel like? I was kinda thinking maybe you're being sucked into something? And then I remember this dvd feature I saw for the movie Jumper, and I thought that would be an awesome effect you can add on your movie, not necessarily for grim reaping but from jumping from places to places, (and like others have said, I like how he "falls" from places to places) here's a link of some behind the scenes of the movie I saw online... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOvKzo4Y9vU ...but this isn't exactly the one I wanted to show you, I don't know if you've watched this movie before but give it a look, it's not the best story but I think the technical aspects and stylistic choice of this film will help you a lot :) if you have money to spare for an extra dvd on your shelf, go get yourself one, but make sure to get the one that has features on it, if you do watch the "How to make an actor jump" that one was pretty cool :) I think you'll like it a lot. It definitely has that Michael-fucking-Bay you were going for on a much feasible, student film level :) So yeah, like I what I texted you, I hope you're excited as I am with this one lol :P
Can't wait for more! keep it!
-Gellie
p.s. sorry, I didn't realize i was writing this long already :P
Jason,
ReplyDeleteI think that you are on the right track as far as "bringing your script back to reality". I think that the story is still very strong and I feel as though you are getting closer to having well-developed characters. That being said, I still don't care enough about John. I get that he is a decorated veteran, but you have to give him something unique, for example, Johnny Utah from Point Break. While cheesy, he was still given "the Ohio State QB who blew out his knee in the biggest game of his life" story to help provide more back story to the character and I think that you would benefit greatly from developing a better back story for him. Karma also seems like a very flat character and you need to spice up his dialogue and vocabulary to make him feel like he is a character of importance. Overall, great job, but you definitely have some work cut out for you.
LOVE THE JOHNNY UTAH IDEA!!!! I will incorporate that somehow!
Delete